Authority for Growth: Insights from the Military and the Courage to Transform Your Leadership | Eric Lazar

Eric Lazar, president and owner of SpeedPro, was not always the successful, respected, approachable leader he is. Today in this episode, Eric tells us about taking in tough feedback, why he led in ineffective ways in the past, and what he now watches out for to ensure he's a leader that truly engages those around him. I'm glad you're here to hear from Eric.

Welcome to the Courage of a Leader podcast. This is where you hear real life stories of top leaders achieving extraordinary results, and you get practical advice and techniques you can immediately apply for your own success. This is where you will get inspired and take bold, courageous action. I'm so glad you can join us. I'm your host. Amy Riley, now are you ready to step into the full power of your leadership and achieve the results you care about most? Let's ignite the Courage of a Leader.

Eric, thank you for being on the courage of a leader podcast today.

Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to this conversation that we're going to have. You talked with me about your transition out of the Marine Corps and the lessons that you learned that have helped you become a more effective leader. So to start this conversation, Eric, will you tell us about who you were and how you operated when you were in the Marines? It's interesting.

I I got promoted relatively quickly at a young age, and I think that's very typical for you know, for the services, you have people that obtain rank and, you know, maybe 19 or 20, and they've got a few people under them. Think I came into the service with sort of a perception of what leadership was. I didn't have a lot of confidence in a team as a teenager, which drove me into it. And in the Marine Corps, you, you, you see a couple of different styles of leadership. And certainly the the first experience that everybody has is Boot Camp, where it's just about barking and commands and demands. And that, I think resonated with me in terms of, that's what I thought leadership was, which was really interesting. And you know, when I got out into the Marine Corps after graduating boot camp and still being at a relatively low rank, it was still how most of the people immediately senior to me operated. So I sort of kept with that as I got promoted, I did not necessarily mature with that, and I and I sort of held and I didn't evolve. I think, in my role, working in intelligence, I had exposure I was enlisted, and I had exposure to a lot of the officers who operated in a very, in a very different way, amongst themselves, and, you know, with the people that they led, and I don't know, you know, while I always admired it, I didn't necessarily have the confidence to sort of incorporate it. So I never really, you know, I think it wasn't until there, there was a, just a very pivotal moment in my Marine Corps career, where I got called out for for my behavior and my awful style of leadership. And it probably wasn't until then that I really began to adjust how I interact with with people, and, you know, the style of leader that I wanted to become, and, you know, hopefully, eventually became, yeah,

can you tell us a little bit more about that, getting, getting called out either what you took away from that conversation? What was the impetus for, okay, I hear you. I'm gonna make a change here.

I think it was that my life was in jeopardy. Quite honestly, we really came down to that we had, we had gone to the Philippines, where we were heading to the Philippines, a small contingent, and there was a gunnery sergeant who I just had the utmost admiration respect. He was probably 20 years older than, you know, than than me. And so, you know, he may have been 38 years old. He was like a father, and everybody just loved this guy. And he took me aside one day, and he said, we're heading to the Philippines. He's like, if you continue this, he's like, when you get off base, I can't promise you, you're coming back. He's like, these guys want to absolutely. Completely just beat you. He said you've got a couple of weeks to really begin to clean up your act and learn to lead. And he said it needs to happen immediately, because I can't, I can't vouch for your safety there. That was really frightening. Of course, that was really, really scary. And that, that I would say was that was one of the most, I think, singularly pivotal moments in my life, realizing how bad a leader I was.

Yeah, what did you try? How did you change

part of being in the service is rank, and there's, you know, there's respect that comes with rank. I was still a relatively young non commissioned officer, so it wasn't like I was commanding respect by virtue of my rank. And I really didn't know how to get respect at that point, but i There were plenty of there were plenty of people that were much senior to me that I saw how they operated. It was certainly the kind of leader I wanted to be, but I didn't have the self confidence to emulate that style and still think I would be effective and achieve what I wanted to achieve. I just didn't have the maturity. But I really quickly learned to try to adapt some of those skills and to be much softer around the edges as many of the as many of the officers and senior non commissioned people were and see if I could adopt that, you know, as sort of part of my demeanor and my style of leadership without sacrificing the ability to get things done the way I need to be, or, you know, my own, you know, my own self perception of being weak. You know, there's a machismo that you know when you're in the military that you need to behave a certain way and by not personifying that, you know, what is the perception of others have you? And again, you know my own immaturity at that time is, what was my perception of myself? You know, I remember very clearly that moment that he took me aside, and the emotional struggles that I had with trying to evolve into that person in a very, you know, in a very swift manner and still be effective.

Yeah, yeah. I really appreciate your willingness to share this story with us in this way, Eric and talking about the confidence I have leaders every day, Eric, who are telling me I feel like I have imposter syndrome, right? I'm not confident, right? I feel like this job is beyond my capabilities at times. You know, we get promoted throughout our career, and we often feel like, okay, I'm making this up. I'm faking it until I make it. And I think the lesson for us all the opportunities for all of us to look when we feel that lack of confidence, when we feel like, Oh, this is this is stretching me a little bit beyond my boundaries. Here, take a look, right? What is that having us do as a leader? Are we acting in the most empowering and engaging ways in those times? And it's tough, right? It takes courage to be able to look, and all of us are probably not going to have the exchange that you had, right? The opportunity where someone's going to say, Hey, I'm going to point this out to you, your safety is at risk here, right? Or whatever is at risk your team results, your reputation, you know, the respect of your team members, is at risk here. You need to make a change, right? Those kinds of candid conversations don't always come our way by

virtue of having somebody that cared for me enough, not only as a person, but to see me evolve as a better leader, to take me aside and tell me and you know, it really changed the rest of my experience in the Marine Corps, because I didn't realize how much I had isolated myself and how few friends I had. You know, it was nice to to have that camaraderie and not sort of live on an island. Yeah,

that's part of what's possible, right? When we have a more participatory, empowering leadership style. What can you tell us about those next three weeks and going to the Philippines, about your leadership and what, what might benefit our listeners? I

wound up coming out of that experience with two really good friends. I mean, got. That I knew, and, you know, would hang out there, you know, hang out prior. But it was a real, you know, it was an opportunity that I think they saw me in a different light. They became two of my, you know, closest friends while, you know, I was in the service, and I had a fantastic time there, I was really able to, you know, to enjoy it and take part in all the things without worrying about whether, you know, one to do it alone, because there wasn't really anybody that would have wanted to hang out with me before. And then, you know, tutor the, I guess, just to have a really good time and again. You know, have that camaraderie where I'm not, you know, on the outside looking in. And you know, one of the guys we still stay in touch, he was in Chicago maybe two years ago, and, you know, it's fantastic. It's really nice to have, you know, to have those bonds. Yeah,

it creates true connection. So as I'm listening to you, Eric, I'm making the assumption that the shift in your leadership was more about stopping some behaviors. It was stopping the commands, the demands, the leaning into the authority,

Oh, absolutely. I was, you know, I had a, I don't know, like a Napoleon Complex kind of thing. I was, I was rigid. I was unapproachable. Yeah, you know, there wasn't anything to like about me. So it was, you know, it was allowing, I think, my true self, to come out and not hide behind this persona of what, again, I thought a leader was, or what I wanted to be. Wanted to be more macho and more tough and something that I am innately not.

I think it's very human tendency. We talk about this in a number of leadership programs that I do. You use the word persona, Eric and so many of us do put a persona forward. You know, especially in those areas where we're not as mature in our leadership, where we might not have as much confidence, right? I'm going to show up as the smart person, right? Or I'm going to be everybody's friend person, like whatever it might be, rather than showing up as our true selves and letting people see that and everything that's great and not so great about that, because we're human beings, 100%

is I just I adopted a persona that wasn't me. It wasn't authentic, and it showed through. Yeah,

Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Was a very nice introduction,

yeah, yeah, I love it. So Eric, if we don't have a gunnery sergeant who comes and has a candid conversation with us, how do we catch ourselves? What would you have gone back and told yourself or asked yourself, do.

You know, what do you do without a gun research and hopefully, you know, as you evolve as a person, your your social and emotional intelligence increases, and you can be you can get those cues from those around you. While that was a transformative moment for me, it's not like I haven't had setbacks, you know, and I remember having one, probably in my early 40s. I was stationed or based in a client's office here in Chicago, where I was their client, I should say so. I was their client. I was based in their office. This is back when I was in television. I had properties or television, you know, TV stations that I represented in Milwaukee, Oklahoma City and Cincinnati and Minneapolis, but I lived here, and so I was allowed to work out of basically our rep firm's office. I was pretty awful to a lot of people there too. It's, you know, I reverted back to old behaviors, and I had the VP of the office. Take me aside one day, and he's basically said, I don't care if you're a client. He's like, I'm going to kick your ass out of here is you need to change how you communicate, how you deal with how you operate with my people. Your behavior is absolutely unacceptable. You know, I think when I am fearful, you know, and the pressure is on and I need to hit my goals and my objectives and whatever it might be, I could have a tendency to to revert to behavior that is something that I'm not proud of. You know, I don't think I've really had any relapses of any significance since then, and it's something that I try to be very conscious of. I need to be aware and so I try to be very conscious of what's going on around me, how people are reacting? Are they rolling their eyes? Are they walking away from me? Do they constantly seem annoyed? It's just, you know, yeah, I do it for myself. You know, in in this role. I mean, I'm also fortunate that I have a business partner who, actually, I know her from back in the days of television, when I was in that office as, okay, a difficult person. So I'm very grateful for her, you know. And you know, I don't, I don't think she's, you know, she's found any reason to say that I've been out of whack in the last nine years since having this business. But, you know, I think it's amazing given her, given her experience with me then that she would have taken the the chance to leave, or taken the chance and left there to join me on this

you've obviously shown her other sides of Eric, and I can't thank you enough for your candor. And is this a very human tendency? This is why, with so many assessments like DISC or Myers Briggs, it talks about, what do we revert to when we're under pressure? Right? If we really want to take an honest look at our behavior across the spectrum, take a look at how do we show up when the pressure is on, when we're feeling fearful, where there's a looming deadline, when there's pressures coming from different people, different directions, when we feel like our capabilities and our resources are not enough to handle what's going on when we're stressed, right? How are

we operating? And that's what accounts the most. That's

probably when the people around you are stressed and under pressure, right? And need that leadership, and what kind of leadership are we giving them? And I think your advice, Eric, to look at your emotional intelligence, right? What are you picking up from the people around you? Is so wise, right? How are we are we reflecting on our day to day? Are we thinking about like, what? What were the reactions when I shared that in the meeting solicit feedback? That's

what I was going to say. Is having that upward feedback is creating that that environment, that it's safe for people to to give you honest, constructive criticism without fear of retribution. I've found that very, very helpful that I don't, I don't think there's anybody that you know has worked, you know, worked with me for the last, you know, since I've had this that has any fear that there's going to be some sort of retaliatory, retaliatory action for being honest with me. And I think. And, you know, and it goes both ways. It also allows me to have difficult conversations, which I really don't like having, but learning to do it in a soft, respectful manner. And, you know, and that it's, you know, you know, it's mutual. And that's, that's really helpful. I think that's what's created the environment that I have now, which is nice, and I think in return, it's like, I'm very loyal to the people that are working with me, and I think they're very loyal to me. That's something that's very, very hard to achieve. Yeah, for me, it's always been a struggle for me. Yeah, no,

I think you are. You are not alone in that, right? And that. I mean, that means everything. I mean, it's one of the strongest engagement factors, right? When people feel loyal, they feel safe. I can show up, I can give feedback, I can share my ideas, right? Others are going to have my back, that safety is one of the strongest indicators of engaged employees, and when they're engaged, then there's higher performance, then there's better results.

The one of the things that I try to strongly reiterate is that it's a safe environment, because I've worked in places that weren't safe environments, you know, whether it was my experience with what happened the Marine Corps extreme. So I'm not talking about physical safety, but emotional safety. I think that's super critical, and that's what I try to reiterate, is like, this is a safe environment. This is a place that you can come sometimes people just need an outlet. And they do need, you know, they need somebody that's going to lend an empathetic, compassionate ear, and people are going to have bad days. And, you know, as as long as that's not a consistent hindrance to performance, because we're all there to to achieve a mission. It should be safe to to have your off day with you know, because we all have them. Yeah,

I'm hearing, how do we create a safe environment? You empathy, compassion, just that commitment to having a safe environment, right? Letting, letting people be human. I'd like to double click on it a little bit more, Eric, and ask you, how do you right as the top person in speed? Pro, like, how are you getting feedback? Because I can hear some listeners wondering, like, yeah, like, I think I'm a great boss, and I asked for feedback, and I'm not sure I'm getting it. Like there's sometimes there are just those folks that it really takes something for them to open up to someone who is senior to them. Any advice for us there?

Well, we're a small organization is, you know, there are six of us, so okay, it's very, you know, and we will go between six and seven, you know, maybe sometimes eight, depending, you know, just where we're at. But it's a, it's, it's a small, nuclear family. So it's not, you know, we've got an open door. I mean, literally, it's like my business partner, I sit in an office together. It's, you know, 12 by 17 office with a desk against the wall, and we both sit in there. The door is always open. People can always come in, and we're both walking around. You know, it's like and not supervising, but making ourselves available is it could be simply quality assurance, putting a second set of eyes on things, asking, what's going on? Do we need help prioritizing whatever it might be, and in the course of doing that and making ourselves available, is if somebody's got a gripe, or if there's an issue, they're going to say it, yeah, you know, it's like, we need this kind of additional support, you know? Or this is a problem, or Rebecca, who is my business partner, Rebecca is telling me one thing, that this is a priority. You're telling me another thing, this is priority. What the hell do I do and who do I listen to? You know, those are all things that I they feel, I think, very comfortable in saying, like, Hey, can you guys get aligned? Because we're getting mixed messages. It's just that, that level of availability to people that we don't, I mean, we physically don't keep the door closed unless we're on a call, and we just need to block out the sounds of the machines, short of that, walk in if you got to walk in, and if not, you know, you'll see me in 15 minutes walking the floor of the shop. And you know, we're there. So, yeah,

yeah. So, I mean, this is an invitation to all the leaders listening. How do you make yourself available? Right? They might. Not be in the situation that you are where there's an office and everybody's, you know, in the same building. But how do you make yourself available? Are you picking up when they're calling you on a team's call, right? Are you? Are you? Are you reaching out and asking questions about how's it going? Yeah.

I mean, there are certain things that we do. It's like, we buy lunch pretty frequently, and more than just once a week. It's a chance that, you know, you're, we're throwing a bunch of pizzas on the production table, just simple, simple little things like that that naturally just bring you together, even if it's for 15 minutes. You know, one of the people that works with us, she doesn't have a car. Yeah, it's relatively on my way home, so I try to make a point to either pick her up in the morning, if, if I'm not coming in significantly earlier, or drop her home at night, it's an opportunity for us to spend 10 minutes in the car. Yeah, you know that that's fine. So, you know, we look for all those little ways to just have a little bit extra connection, that if somebody wants to pay something, they've got the opportunity.

Yeah, how do we increase those connections? How do we increase those interactions? Yeah, because then we learn about what's going on and if, oh, gosh, that's it, that's not working as smoothly as we might anticipate. That working what's going on here. Tell me about it. Any ideas how we can address that, creating those, those informal interactions,

that's where a lot of the conversations happen. When people are with their peers, their words become more measured. So trying to find those, those one on one opportunities where it's a more casual setting, yeah, people tend to loosen up. Yeah, my nature is to joke and tease. I'm very sarcastic, and I love to joke and tease. I think, you know, allowing myself to do that with people, I think, also creates a feeling of comfort, a feeling of safety. And it's funny, it's, it's an opportunity when people also, you know, when they feel comfortable and they are sarcastic. A lot of a lot of funny things come out in sarcasm. People sort of say what they want that they wouldn't say if they were, if they were measuring their words. And it's a really good opportunity when they when they play back into it, to find out what they're really thinking. I never intended it as a tool, and it's, I don't use it as a tool, but it's a an interesting aftermath, or, you know, result of doing that, that sometimes I get some really good insights into who I am when, when they tease back, got

it? Got it? No, I hear that that is about you being yourself, right, right? And there can be those moments where there's a sarcastic comment, you're like, Oh, I think there's something there exactly. Let's pay attention to that, you know. And

it's good, because if they're comfortable, you know, if that's the way that they're comfortable expressing it, as long as I am open to hearing it and I don't take offense, I mean, you know, listen, there's always a point that it's okay that crossed the line. Not that I've had that, but you know, it could go there. And you don't want to create an environment that, you know, allows people to feel like they can say absolutely anything, and nor should I, you know, be able to say absolutely anything in return. But it does create an environment where maybe that, again, if they're they're more concerned about measuring their words. This gives them a little bit of flexibility and freedom to say the things that they might not have otherwise. And it probably doesn't work for every leader. It works for me, but most of the time, the sort of the teasing and joking just go to, you know, creating a more fun, relaxing environment,

yeah? Those informal interactions, yeah? Eric, this time went by so quickly. Yeah, thank you for sharing with us very candidly your leadership journey. Appreciate it

My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you for listening to the Courage of a Leader podcast. If you'd like to further explore this episode's topic, please reach out to me through the courage of a leader website at www.courageofalleader.com I'd love to hear from you. Please take the time to leave a review on iTunes that helps us expand our reach and get more people fully stepping into their leadership potential. Until next time, be bold and be brave, because you've got the Courage of a Leader.