Welcome to our podcast series UNFILTERED. This

is where we have courageous conversations about topics that

are not always discussed in the mainstream or in the workplace.

Here we stripaway the polished surface

and dive into the raw, messy and deeply human topics that we

don't think it talked about often enough.

We are your unfiltered hosts. I'm Amy from

the Courage of a Leader podcast,

and I'm Daphna from Leadership Live podcast

with two coaches from two sides of the world who believe that

real growth happens in the uncomfortable, unspoken moments

from Workplace trauma to dealing with major life

changes and taboo topics like grief, imposter syndrome and

menopause, this is the space where nothing is off limits.

So if you're ready for honest, bold and

sometimes messy conversations, let's get into it. You don't

have to be the loudest in the room to be a powerful leader.

Today, we are talking about introverts, sometimes

misunderstood, sometimes underestimated and often

overlooked.

Wheel best myths. Share our own experiences

and dive into why being quiet might just be your greatest

strength.

I love it. Let's get unfiltered about being an

introvert. Let's do it so damn know, we said first that we

wanted to define what we mean by introversion and extroversion

absolutely, yeah, and I think it's not what

people typically think. So I think that's a very important

thing. The definition Do you want to go ahead,

yes, and please add so it's a continuum, highly

extroverted on one side, a preference for highly

introverted on the other side. So we do also want to clarify

that it's a preference for how we process and how we gain our

energy, though, if we say someone has a preference for

introversion, it doesn't mean that they're not gregarious,

that they can't be social, right? It's how they get and

refuel their energy. So someone with a preference for

extroversion, processing their thoughts out loud and being

comfortable doing that and gain energy when they are in social

situations and around other people and building off each

other's ideas. Whereas an introvert, will you say this

side?

Daphna, yeah, so the introvert, and for me,

the really good distinction that I often use with people who not

show a way to place themselves or where they think it's

obviously one thing, but not another, is, where do you get

energy when you feel drained? So the introvert will get energy,

but being alone and having quiet time and absorbing some of the

social or the things that drain them, absorbing it into their

center, their core, and allowing it to be processed and calmed

down. So I often say to people at the end of a very busy work

day, you've had meetings, you've presented, you've worked with

your team, you've done a whole lot of things. You're tired

because we get tired. What do you want to do? Then, if you're

getting battered, to a party, do you think? Yes, that's going to

restore my energy. I'm going to be, you know, fully alive and

funny. Let me be social, yeah, and going. And that's going to

give me a high and a nerf. Or do you go, Oh my gosh, that is the

worst thing I can think of doing right now. I just need to go

home, lie down, have some quiet time and regroup. And that's the

difference. The main difference kind of an added anecdote for

really looking at if you're an extrovert, you'll go to the

party and feel on a high afterwards. If you're an

introvert, you'll go home, quiet dinner, quiet time, maybe

connecting with family, small, intimate, and then you'll feel

replenished.

Yes, and of course, this is a continuum, and

this is a continuum Absolutely, let's not

forget that, yeah,

and you might be someone that resonated with some

of the things that we said about people that are on the

extroverted side of the continuum, and some of the

things that we said about the introverted side, right? And

you, and it's situational, you might find yourself in different

places, yeah, depending on the day, the week, the month, the

year,

exactly are exactly. Yeah. And I do want to

add there that people are often surprised, because maybe here's

a time for us to share. What do we think we are? But people are

often surprised because they take me for a full on extrovert,

because I talk fast. I've got a lot of energy, a lot of passion.

I love being front of room. I do enjoy going to parties, but the

truth is that I'm a what do you call it? Lacher, a moth? Thora,

I'm really an introvert inside, because when I've had too much

of that interaction, that really does feed me and give me energy

I need. I absolutely need that downtime. I need the downtime to

just go, gather my thoughts, gather myself, my space, and

just be on my own for a little bit. So that's I would say I'm

tending to the introvert side. And let's also define the

ambivert, which can be both. So I do know that I have ambivert

qualities, let's just say, because I can do both. But

tending to introvert, how about you?

I am extremely extroverted, and of course,

there are times when I have introverted behaviors and

preferences, right, depending on how the day the week went, but

yes, highly extroverted. So this leaves us as two people who I

think are perfect to have this unfiltered conversation about

what happens when we're all mixed together in a workplace

acted to have synchronous and asynchronous collaboration, and

how does that all unfold? One more

types of people, yeah, with different

types of people, and reminding of the continuum on different

levels of the continuum at different times, in different

situations. I think that's really just good for awareness,

exactly, exactly. Also, we're going to use some

shorthand. In this case. We're going to say extroverts and

introverts when we mean people with a preference for

extroversion, or folks with a preference for introversion.

We're not going to say that whole phrase every time, so

we're going to shorthand. And many people do in mainstream

conversations talk about introverts and extroverts, but

please, we want to everyone to know that it is actually a

continuum that we all live on day to day. And I'd like to

just pause there for a moment and just say,

why is this conversation important? Conversation

important? Why is it important to talk about it? Okay, okay, so

there's different preferences, different personality, styles

and approaches. Why is it important for us in the

workplace?

Yes, as I think, and I can get on my soapbox about

this stamp, I mean, I think so many meetings and interactions

are set up for the extroverts, and we are missing the best

thinking from our introverts, right? They're still processing

and putting together the brilliant idea in their heads,

and the conversation has already

run away, and I think that's yeah, such, such an

important thing to to really talk about, because extroverts

process their thinking out loud. Actually, they it's not that

they've formulated their ideas and thoughts and suggestions and

then spoke about them. They're actually thinking as they're

speaking. That's their particular skill. You know, they

can do that, whereas introverts have to process the whole thing

first and then think about it, and then they will have

something to say that is adding to and you're adding value to

the conversation. But if the extrovert and the introvert are

in the room, the extrovert is going to think loud and think,

think, think, and come to their conclusion while the introvert

is still processing. And then, as you said, the conversation

can run away, because the extrovert thinks, Okay, we've

discussed it. We've got an outcome, and the introvert

hasn't said one thing yet. So for me, the extrovert really has

to be aware of this to make space for the introvert to say,

what do you think you know? What's coming up for you? What

are the thoughts you're having in the moment? The introvert

needs to understand that they can speak, even if they haven't

processed the whole thing

as friends, yes, and it could be okay to have a

couple of

minutes of silence. Yes, extrovert, hate

that, right?

Get here, get me, get me another assignment during

that time, right? Right? Yeah, for people to gather their

thoughts, right? Start writing it down. That would be a way

that everyone on the continuum could participate. And Daphna, I

know we've got leaders coming to us who are saying, I'm not

having the level of engagement that I want

exactly major complaint. Major complaint. Just

last week, I was working with two founders of an organization,

and they were saying exactly that to me, and they were

saying, but we don't think it's our place to, you know, when

we're having a team meeting, the team has just speak up. They

actually said, it's not our place ask them for their input.

We don't need to ask for it. They should just classic to

extrovert. See, I was leading this company. We're. Some

introverted people in their team, and they're waiting for

them to speak up. But the introverts sometimes need that

invitation, that moment of silence, to really kind of be

invited into the space and feel that they're invited into the

space to give their contribution.

Yes, I'm wanting to go into some of our advice for

lead. I know

in this we look at the struggles first. Okay,

how do you know you're an introvert? Statement, so we've

got some app one, maybe, let's, let's go there. You know, you

know you're an introvert, if, and we've got, we came up with

some good ones that I think will help people recognize the

introverted side of themselves. So do you want

to go first you as our introvert? Daphna, will you

start and say some of these statements that strongly

resonate with you?

Okay, so I want to start with the fact that you

actually feel genuine joy sometimes when someone takes to

can we reschedule our plans, and this is often relating to social

plans, right? So, you know, you see the can we reschedule down?

Someone will go, probably, oh, how can they let me down last

minute this and I'm going, like, what a relief I get to have an

evening at home. I don't have to get all dressed up. I can just

relax, read my book and regroup. And I think that that's

something that a lot of introverts feel. Yep, even

though we appreciate social interactions, we love our social

engagements, but sometimes it's actually okay. We've been given

a gift that's I've been given, given a gift a night off. Yes,

yes. How about you?

Oh, one that I am responding to is your idea of a

wild Friday night is staying home and not talking to anyone

on purpose, right? And for me, that's especially if it's been a

full week, it's been busy, right? My brain has been going

in different directions. I have gathered that energy and used it

up right in its energy this time for a refuel. I love

what you're saying there, because I think it

relates to our continuum idea where maybe everybody has a

certain bucket of energy that once it's used up, you need to

go to that introverted end of the scale to regroup. Just find

yourself quiet, moment and regroup and and it's true that

that level of energy is just at different levels for different

people, and as we said, in different situations, so when

it's used up, we need to regroup.

Yeah, and given what is going on in our world right

now, our climate, our politics, our wars, it's calling for a lot

of resilience and energy. There's a lot to process and

think and feel these days, it's just dawning on me that that

might be pushing us all towards the introverted side of the

scale in terms of needing that time to regroup, refuel, refuel,

yeah, and that everyone can gain from that. I

know that when I work with my extroverted clients, I guess

even the coaching session is that moment to pause, slow down

all the activity that's going on around you, and just give

yourself a moment to reflect and think about what you're doing,

and that is something that is beneficial to everyone, and

especially what you're highlighting in our slightly

chaotic world as it stands at the moment,

yeah, it's, it's making me think of time for

three things just popped into my head, the reflection, like you

were saying, the refueling. What do we all do to refuel? Right?

Is it take a pottery class? Is it a walk in nature? Is it a

call with a friend? Right? Like a light form of interaction,

like what refueled you? And then I just think right now, like we

all need more planning time, right? In ways that work for us?

Yes, so you're saying reflection in terms of

just looking at the past and saying, What am I learning?

How's it connecting with me? What I want to take from this.

And then there is that other it could be even a different kind

of reflection, where we actually planning. You're actually

thinking about what you want to do and taking some time to plan

it, instead of always having to respond in the moment, in the

moment. Yes, I just want to do one more, one more, because I

love to be an introverted and this is one I really relate to,

okay, and I know, I know some of my introverted friends also do.

I've done this. I'm guilty. I think I know which one you're

gonna say. I've hidden in a bathroom stall at a party just

to regroup, just to maybe scroll through some memes or something,

just to get my energy. Back before I go back into the room

and start to engage again. And I know that I've done this, and

especially also at networking events or conferences, where, I

think, for introverts, the energy that it takes to interact

with people that you don't know as well. I think when it's a

party or a group with people that you know and they're your

friends and you appreciate, you can really, you know, go well

with that again on the continuum, but when it's people

you don't know, requires even more energy, so that hiding in

the bathroom I'm guilty of. And I wonder if any of our listeners

are guilty as well and can relate to that.

I'm so glad that we're sharing a few of these.

You might be an introvert, if so that folks don't feel alone,

because I mean in those moments, and let me tell you, like as an

extrovert, when I've needed things like that, like now I

need to hide in the bathroom because I'm overwhelmed, there's

been just like certain times in life when I've needed that, it

has felt wrong or shameful or embarrassing, like what it what

is going on with me as a human being that I need this moment to

regroup so as long as double click here and be like, you

know, I think often introverts, or when we're on That

introverted side of the scale, we can place judgment or a

negative label or interpretation on that, and I want to say,

humans, humans, let's not do that

elaborate taking this because I think here

we're going, we are really double clicking on, why is it

hard? Why is it a struggle? And I think what you're highlighting

there is our own judgment about ourselves and what behaviors are

okay or not. Okay? Is something wrong with me if I choose to

hide in the bathroom? Is something wrong with me if the

doorbell rings and I don't feel like answering it, or if I don't

feel like having a long phone call at the moment, just don't

have the energy for it. And the second thing around that is

sometimes the judgment and the conversation around

introversion, extroversion makes introverts feel like

introversion is a flaw rather than a superpower, which it

really, really is and can be. But the kind of languaging and

the world around us speaks about being an introvert, like it's

something that needs to be fixed. So introverts get this

message from both sides, like themselves, like what's wrong

with me, and also the outside world of well, if you're an

introvert, we'll just put in more effort, or give it more

energy, or just make the effort and go out there, or go to the

meeting or

present, share your ideas. Happy, your

ideas Exactly, exactly. I think that's a real,

really important point about the struggle.

Yes, definitely. I've had so many coaches that I've

worked with that are introverts that, you know, they come and

they're like, how do I get myself to say the thing during

the meeting,

exactly right by how do I

they feel like they have to change to fit the

situation?

It's true, and I think, and we are going to get

to the practical advice and tips, right, so we will touch on

that. But I also think that the next level of what the

consequence of that is that they often feel like they're

overlooked, and they possibly are, and they possibly are

because they are not showing up enough. I think one thing that I

also talk about is doing your own PR work, within your

business, within your organization, because if you're

not going to be talking about what you're doing and your

successes, and not in an arrogant way, look at me, but

more in a actually informing people and letting people know

of your involvement in your contribution, people are not

going to know. And that can lead to being overlooked, being

underestimated, undervalued, and that does have serious

consequences for emotions and advancement.

Yeah, really fear that the concerns of the

introverts are very real, right? Like, not only if I don't speak

up in these meetings, not only am I not going to get visibility

and get thought of for this opportunity or this next

promotion, like, I'm going to get forgotten, right? I'm not

seen, I'm not heard, I'm not noticed, and

I'm going to add to that, and you are, you

are going to be forgotten. That's what I want to say. And

maybe that's the hard part, you know? Maybe that's the tough

conversation here that we are having at the moment, is that

organizational culture is often 100% of the cases. I think there

are mechanisms you can put in at work, and maybe that's leaders

responsibility, and they need to look at how they do that to

really notice your more quiet employees, to make sure that you

look. At value add, rather than at loudest voices. But at the

same time, I think it's for introverts to take

responsibility for how they're seen and make sure that they

understand that if they don't do things, and again, I'm going to

say you can do it in a way that works for you. It doesn't have

to be loud and proud and uncomfortable. You are going to

be overlooked. You are going to be forgotten if you do not speak

up. And the answer you need to do,

yeah, yeah. And we're not saying that's right. No, we

know, like we want the opposite of that, but that is often what

is

so yeah, yeah. And I think, and here we're

talking to both sides, both sides taking responsibility as

an organizational entity, as a leader of an organizational

entity. How can you make sure that you really are being fair

in how you evaluate your people and don't just go for the

obvious kind of indicators? Yeah, and for the people that

we're talking about, the introverts themselves, how do

you make sure that you really step up with your superpowers?

And I know I've been talking about superpowers, I've been

mentioning it, but we haven't actually said what are they?

What? Okay, but

let's go to the superpowers for the introverts,

and then let's talk advice for Yeah, excellent superpowers of

the introverts.

Yes, yes, okay, my number one is observational

skills. They are able to step back and really read the room

very well. The extroverts are so busy processing their thoughts,

their plans, and you know, that kind of very self process, self

oriented process, whereas the introverts are listening,

processing and noticing what's going on the room. So they are

very good observers. They are very good listeners as

well, and they can take all that content that the

extroverts are immediately espousing and pull all that

together and be thoughtful and construct Right? Like add on to

and synthesize what's being shared.

Exactly that is being intentional with your

communication. You're not just gonna say something because you

want your voice to be heard. You are gonna say something when you

have something really valuable to contribute. So your

communication is very intentional.

It often comes with some great analytical, yeah,

yeah, yeah. And thinking and focus, yeah, that ability to

focus and dive deep, dive into exactly matter, exactly, yeah,

and stay there and stay there for some

time, exactly, keep the conversation on track,

keep the goal in mind, and keep working towards that. Yes, I

think also, another thing that's coming up for me is the power of

the one on one relationships with introverts. You know, I

think that there's energy that's required there that's different

to the the group interaction, energy and introverts tend to be

better at that.

Yeah, yeah. Big about that power, if you've got those

one on one relationships with the key influencers in different

functional areas inside of your organization or your industry,

then the power when you do bring an idea forward, you've got the

folks that are going to listen.

It's very true. It's very true. That makes me

think also of level of expertise introverts, because of their

focus and their analytic often, and we generalizing here again,

just a quick reminder, the folks and the continue, they're

generally seen, seen as the experts. So people really vet.

They have a lot of credibility. People value their input because

of the level of expertise that they tend to have.

Yes, absolutely. Just a quick anecdote that jumped

into my head as the opposite of introversion. Daphna, I am the

worst training participant, like when I'm like, as an extrovert,

sitting there in the room, like absorbing the information, like

either like trying to take it all in and not being able to

facilitate or say the things or be out loud. Oh, I sit there,

and I would label it as impatience, but it's that desire

for the interaction

isn't that interesting, because I think

about also, you know, when you have a group process, or even in

a coaching session, one on one, and at the end of the session,

we go, what is your takeaway from the session? I don't know

if you ask that. I'm sure you have some kind of question that

you ask at the end. And often I have my introverts who will say

to me, hold on. We've just had those comments. I can't answer

that now. I've had that happen with extreme introverts. It's

like, wait, I need to process. We discussed a lot of stuff, and

I need to really think, and I need to absorb it. And then

after you ask me. Next time, what I took away, Yes, last

time, conversation. So that's also just a very interesting and

a killing and

I can relate to that, because after a day of

facilitation, let's just say, with a global group of leaders,

there's a lot going on. I might have a co facilitator. Often,

I've had that CO facilitator ask me at the end of the end of the

day, what do you think about this? What do you think about

this? Who do you think are most engaged participants? Who do you

think this? And I have been so out there with people like

present in the moment, doing the things, reacting to things in

the moment, that actually, then I feel like I can't answer that

question. I need to, I need some time to process.

You know, what I'm loving about this

conversation is that I'm really realizing how now, as we've been

talking introverts extroverts, the power of both and what it

really means. What's coming up for me is how both can get value

from, first of all, seeing the other, but also practicing some

of the skills of the other, you know, of the other side. So

something that's coming out for me is really play along that

continuum place yourself on in any given moment and say, Would

it be valuable? Would it serve me, or the situation or the

process, to step a little bit to either side and see how I can

just train my muscles, my brain muscle, to do something a little

bit different.

I love it. And you know, Daphna, in preparing for

this conversation, this conversation can often go in the

direction of what introverts need to do differently to fit

into this construct that we have going on in the workplace. And I

was looking as an extrovert, what can we do? And lots of

times, we're the first ones out there with content. Here are my

ideas for this challenge or this opportunity or this problem. We

could also be the first ones out there to talk about the process.

How is our conversation going? Who's quiet in this moment? Who

do we need to hear from? How could we make some constructs so

that we have a shared document that gets added to before,

during and after the meeting, and be the first ones out there

with information about process and how we manage our energy,

right? If I start to talk about my energy and what refuels me

and how I manage it, right, that can open up a conversation for

the full team to talk about what works for them, to co create

norms and ways of operating that actually work for everybody.

I love that. I love what you're saying, and I

want to even make it more practical, and to say you spoke

about process, speaking to the process, and not just the

content. And I think firstly, things like agendas for a

meeting. I know a lot of people can go without agendas for a

meeting, and they go, what do we need an agenda for? I know

exactly what I'm exactly what I'm going to talk about, and

I'll leave the conversation. It will be mine. But if you've got

introverts in the room, that agenda will help them get their

mind set or the frame around it so that they can start thinking

ahead of time. Oh, what are my thoughts about it? And then

actually come ready to contribute, things like inviting

people, everyone in the room, doing around, if you

brainstorming ideas, do around so that everybody and around

means asking everybody around the table to contribute their

thoughts and inviting them into the space. Yeah, and sure,

there's more, you know? Yeah.

Well, these are all. These are ideas for leaders as

well. Right? Use agenda, exactly. Use collaboration,

documents, tools, processes that folks before, during, after the

meeting. So if that person with a preference for introversion

puts together their thinking and it's two days later, they've got

a place to immediately add exactly that I 100%

and I love I love that because it also

sparked a thought for me, a piece of advice that I gave one

of my extroverted leaders, who we speaking about agendas and

how to run meetings in a way that everybody can contribute

and and add value and unfair. Something about agendas, and he

goes, No, for my team meeting, I don't do agendas for the clients

and this and this. I do agendas, but not for the so I said, Why

not do it for the team? That's where you feel you're not

getting the same level of productivity and effectiveness.

So he said, but I don't want to sit and do that. And I said,

give it to one of your you don't have to do it yourself, give it

to one of the team members to own that part of the process. So

you can also delegate it if they're things you don't want to

do, but you know will serve the process. Find the right person

to do that.

Love it. Love it. Leader. We also spoke

about energy. You did bring up the point of

energy. And I also wanted to bring it into more practice.

Call terms of, how do we really look at that and and bring

different people's energies into the room? I don't know if

something's coming up for that for you around there.

So, so an extrovert might want to have working

meetings, right? Like, let's talk this through. Let's do this

side by side. Let's, you know, have input and build on each

other's ideas. Introverts might want to make sure that they've

got time in their calendar for deep thinking, right for focused

time for refueling their energy, making sure that there, there is

a a lunch break or an afternoon solitary walk,

exactly. And I'm thinking that even in long

board meetings or conferences, make sure that there are breaks.

Make sure that there are enough breaks for people to go and just

have that quiet time cup of coffee, whatever it is, and then

come back into the so. So schedule regular breaks for the

people who need them,

and they're longer than you think that they need to

be. I mean, we are always trying to cram so much information into

that precious in person time. But yeah, don't leave your

introverts absolutely exhausted by the end of it

exactly, exactly, nice, wow.

Don't confuse silence with disengagement. Yes.

In fact, allow spaces for silence. Yes, yes. Do

your best thinking and most creative ideas come up when

there's opportunities for silence.

Allow multiple modes of contribution, right? So it

might be that silent individual thinking. Now talk it through

with a partner, right? Now, let's talk it through in small

groups or talk it as a full group. I mean, we have these

virtual collaboration, video conferencing tools, right? And

we don't use all of the features,

learn how to use them, learn how to use them

well, so that you can get the level of engagement that you

want absolutely.

Yeah. And if you have some introverts on your team and

you want to get people talking, throw them just in paired

breakouts, right? What are your ideas? Take five minutes talk

this through. Or, like we said, have the silent time, play with

different modes of processing information, generating ideas.

Be clear on what this part of the meeting or the conversation

is about.

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And I'm

thinking about, I know that, and I guess there's something in

here for the extroverts and the introverts, but I know that the

introverts really, really appreciate and crave getting to

the point. So something around that being aware of when the

conversation has now digressed and it's not coming to the point

that you want to. So both sides are other. The introverts use

your focus skills and listening skills to really get to the

essence on the of the conversation, and the extroverts

encourage the thinking and the expansion of thinking while

being aware that it might tire some of your team members out,

or, you know, people that you're talking to?

Yes, do we wrap with some reflection questions? Yes,

I think that's a great idea. Yes. And this is for ties that

we find ourselves on the introversion side of the

continuum is, I guess

this is, I guess this episode is about

being an introvert, while for the extroverts, actually also

being aware of what it means to be an introvert and how they can

contribute to create kind of a more holistic workspace.

Let's go through these. Daphna, do you ever feel

pressured to perform

extra vision? I think that's a great question.

Here's one, how do you recharge after intense people time?

What introvert trait has secretly helped you the most

in leadership or business?

Lovely, lovely. And I think also think about if

you've ever been underestimated because you were quieter. And I

think this last one is for everyone. How do you

protect your energy?

Yes, I think that is actually for everyone,

extroverts and introverts. Protecting energy is your energy

is a really important resource, and you want to be able to

protect it really important.

This is work that everyone needs to do. Leaders,

introverts, extroverts, these are challenging times. We've got

challenging problems on our plate. Plates. We've got

interesting opportunities on our plates. We need everybody's best

thinking to make this happen. So how do we work with our

different preferences to get everybody's best thinking in the

space Exactly?

And I think the thought that I want to leave you

our listeners with is not what's better, introvert, extrovert,

or, How do I become more of an extrovert if I'm an introvert?

Or how do I become more of an introvert if I'm an expert

extrovert? But rather, how do each of of the ends of the

continuum? Let's just say, how do we use our strength, instead

of just trying to fit in, find your strengths within your

preference and see how you leverage those to really be at

your best, instead of trying to fit in to what you think the

world is expecting of you. Excellent.

I think that's a great question to end on. Thank

you my introverted friend.

Thank you my extroverted friend. And yes, if

you enjoyed listening to this episode, please do share it with

people you may think can benefit and leave us a review or a

comment. We'd love to hear from you, and we'd love to hear about

your ideas for more topics that you'd like to hear us talking

about on unfiltered.

Stay courageous. Stay unfiltered.

That's a wrap on this episode of unfiltered,

where we have courageous conversations about topics that

are not often discussed in depth. We hope this conversation

sparked something in you, whether it's a new perspective,

a moment of reflection, or just the reassurance that you're not

alone.

If you found this episode meaningful, please share

it with someone who needs to hear it, and if you have a topic

that you'd love for us to tackle, let us know we are

always up for conversations that don't get talked about enough.

Don't forget to subscribe. Leave a review, and

connect with us on LinkedIn. All our details are in the show

notes, because the best conversations don't end here

until next time. Stay curious, stay courageous and

stay unfiltered.